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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Some of you know I run the total chaos fab long travel IFS currently. It actually does really well, but I have been finding the limits of some drivetrain components as well as steering. My rig is back up and running, and I intend to run it as is, but I am kinda looking into a SAS.

Here are some questions on my mind:

Can you get a 5.29 in a D44 to match my rear ratio, or will my truck become strickly 2x4 on pavement?

Is a Dana a cheaper axle to build then a toy with longs?

Does anybody want to give me an axle? LOL :thumb:

Is a D35 worth a crap in a toy? Is a D44 the smallest I should run?

Like I said, mostly curious right now. I would need to sell my TC setup in order to fund a SAS, and I need to be able to drive my truck as a DD right now. I am confident enough in my welding to do the labor, but need ALL the parts. Give your advice. I maaaay even listen.
 

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You can put 5.38 in the D44 to match to your 5.29's in the rear. That is close enough for wheeling purposes. As far as pavement goes, you should never run in 4 wheel drive on pavement whether your axle ratios are exactly the same or not.

Go with the D44 for the strength over the toy axle and for parts availability.

I don't have an axle to give you sorry.

A D35 isn't worth your time or money, even if you have way too much free time and crap money.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
So there's no ratio closer huh? I have to run my 4wd accasionally to get out of my subdevision. I wouldn't want to loose the ability to throw it in 4wd if I need it on the road with broken ice or spotty slick spots.

Oh, and why would you say you shouldn't run 4wd on pavement. As long as ratios and tire size are the same, there should be no problems.
 

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I would run the Yota front axle with the IFS hubs/discs/calipers on it.

Not sure on the widths, but I would guess a CJ axle (maybe widetrack) would get you close on axle widths, then swap the outers to GM six lug to retain the bolt pattern.

And the Dana 30 fronts aren't that bad really under a lightweight rig. Lots of Jeep guys run them with 35's on them. I think you would find a 30 to be way more reliable than the IFS stuff you are currently running.



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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
See that was my thought as well, but the toy stuff costs a ton of cash to make bullet proof. $745 longields and $140 hubs just as add-ons. Otherwise I just end up swapping stub shaft failures (about $15-20 to replace) with Birf failures at about $100 a piece.

I thought maybe a 35 or 40 would be cheaper to run out of the box so to speak.

BTW, you get the DVDs yet?
 

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Oh, and why would you say you shouldn't run 4wd on pavement. As long as ratios and tire size are the same, there should be no problems.
T cases can bind up if on dry pavement (In a corner the front and rear axles travel a different distance in different arcs) . Do this at your own risk I once ran a 205 for almost 50 miles in 4wd with the hubs locked in 4 hi, this was on the highway though so very gentle turns. I knew a guy that put some gears in toyota that were different ratios and drove it about 100 feet, it ate the ring and pinions not the t-case. I think it would be ok for short distances.

5.13 or 5.38 is as close as you get with a Dana axle

I think a toy axle with longfeilds would hold up pretty good. The biggest advantage of a Dana axle over a toy axle as I see it is bigger wheel bearings and a stronger ring and pinion.
 

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You will only get a 30 or 44 front, 35's are rear axles for mid 80's up Jeeps. I think you would find the Yota swap to be easier though, and drop out thirds are nice option.

As far as the gear ratios go, it would work off road with the 5.38/5.29 combo, although you could run it on the street it would suck. The rear axle would be turning slightly faster than the front, which could make for a disaster on slick roads. It is preferable to have the same or slightly higher gear ratio in the front. That way the front end pulls you to keep you straight and to overcome the fact that trucks usually carry a considerably more weight on the front axle than the rear when unloaded. So the front tires are squished usaully more on the front making them in essence smaller diameter than the rear. You could find the balance of air front to rear that made the distance traveled per driveshaft revolution the same and run it like that on the street.

You could be serious money into a Dana also. Hubs, axleshafts, ujoints. If you have to upgrade, the price isn't significantly different.

It really doesn't matter what axle you get, if you wheel it hard, be prepared to spend some cash on it.



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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Sounds like I need to go steal something. LOL

Just the solid axle swap kits from allpro are $1100 on sale even without the axle factored in.
 

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Flat out a 44 is stronger that a toy axle (stock to stock) you have to take into consideration width, steering and an ultimate tire size to make your decision. I personally hate 44's so I would tell you to put a toy axle in anyday. The drop out third, mild steel housing opposed to a cast housing and closed knuckles can all be an advantage to a toy axle. Toy axles are alot easier to put under your truck. Take into consideration what you want in the end and "try" and only spend your money once.
 

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Longs are a "have to have" thing though aren't they?
I ran my 40 for a while on 35's and stock birfs with no problems (Dont know what tire size your looking at or what your driving style is though and I sure wouldnt plan on doing that forever)

I have an 80ish mini axle housing with stock third if you decide to go that route. I think I still have the stock shafts as well. If your interested pm me and we can work out a deal.

James
 

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Longs are a "have to have" thing though aren't they?

This basically depends on your driving style. If you can manage your right foot pretty well than your axles will last longer, thats all there is too it, also you have to know your axles weak point, if you are backing up and your wheels are turned full lock and you give it power, kiss your birfeilds good bye. I made samurai axles (pretty similar to a toy just smaller) live for several years with lockers low gears and 33s. So I wouldn't call Longs neccesary just nice peace of mind.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I wouldn't say I'm easy on axles, but I'm not hard on them either. I just know my weak spot is a cheap little stub shaft now. I don't want to trade that for an expensive weak spot if they break at about the same time. I should probably run my IFS once I get my heim tie rods installed and see what the axles can really take. The CV outers are actually a little tougher then birfs as long as you limit droop properly.
 

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I have run regular birfs, in several diffrent trucks with tire sizes from 31's to 37's and I have never broken one(in about 10 years) but I do keep a spare set in my truckbox all the time. My latest truck is a 86 with a SAS, if you get the right front axle it will already have asin manual hubs on it
(30 spline) If I got rid of the birfs, i would go with the birfield eliminator kit.
As for SAS conversions Sky manfg has the seperate components of the swap, eliminating some of the crap you get with the marlin/allpro/trailgear kits. and as for the gears you can run F/R gear sets within a number of each other off road, but dont go anymore than 1 numbers diffrence
I.E. 5.29/5.28......How ever when I lived in Japan a buddy of mine borrowed my Hi-lux while I was in Saudi, I told him that the rear was 5.71 and the front was 4.88 and do not put it in 4wd!!! He did, and got to buy me 2 gear sets and a transfer case! (and btw dont run 5.71's, they were all I had access to at the time)
 

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Actually it's 1% difference.


From Randy's R&P...

"To find the percentage difference in ratios it is necessary to divide, not subtract. In order to find the difference divide one ratio by the other and look at the numbers to the right of the decimal point and how far they make the answer different from 1.00. for example 3.54 ÷ 3.50 = 1.01 or 1%, not 4% different. And likewise 4.11 ÷ 4.09 = 1.005 or only a 1/2% difference."
 

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For a SAS I would really just stay with the Toy parts. They are easy to find and they were meant to work with what you already have. As for cost, you don't need to buy some high dollar SAS kit, just make your own front brackets and shackle mounts, put some rear springs up front or 4044's. All you really need is the cross over steering and you already have the box for that. Other than that, you just need the time.
You really just need to ask yourself what you want to use the truck for.
When it comes to Birfs, I have run many Toys over the years and just broke my first birf. Upgrade when you can, you don't have to right off the bat.
 

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How big of tires do you plan on going to? I think that would greatly determine how strong of a axle you need and what upgrades need to be immediate. Also are you planning on locking it or not? And how?
 

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I thought that JoshH had a pair of axles for sale for $200.00? The front should be toyota on your rig. You want the right width for driving on the streets and you want toyota parts for matching the ratio and for parts scrounging when you break.

You can run birfs til you break em and then when you get fed up --- buy the longs....Darrel can tell ya. You can do a whole lot with stock birfs. My best buddy in Sacto ran the rubicon with me 6 times one summer on stock birfs with the front welded. And yes we drove to the Rubicon from Sacto - another 150mi ea trip. It really depends on driving style.

The "kits" from the toyota companys are not for the DIY- and you qualify as DIY for sure. You could fab or buy mounts for everything for under $200.00.

The steering is the other thing to consider - the highsteer arm for the passenger knuckle, the tie rod and the drag link will add up.

All in all, it is more expensive, but worth it. You would have to pony up more $$$ and have some down time, but then you wont be breaking on the trail to the point that you cannot drive out of it.
 
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