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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Pleasant valley is working on their race schedule for next year. Has anyone heard of any other races scheduled for 2007 near the Treasure Valley area? We will try to limit the number of overlaping race days.

Has anyone heard when Soda will have their race next year?

Thanks
 

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I was wondering if there will be sled pulling at the cycle park next year as well? I know I heard talk about it
 

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how about the rules next year? are they going to be the same. don't know if i want to run with diesel with turbo's from the factor and you can chip them for 500 hp and weigh 7200 Ib
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
For the most part, the rules will be the same. We have talked about changing the tire sizes for PS and MT classes. We are waiting to see what Soda SPrings does to their rules.

We hadn't addressed Diesels much. Just mainly going by tire size for classification. I realize they can be chipped, but they weigh so much I didn't think they had an overly unfair advantage.

Do other races think differently??

Don't know about Sled pulls. I just coordinated the Mud stuff with PV. If someone has interest in Sled Pulls they should talk to the Campbells and maybe they can work something out.

Same goes with setting up a rock garden.

I know PVCP is looking for other events to have out there.
 

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We have talked about what to do about "chipped/juiced" diesels. The problem with them is a lot like trying to limit what has been done inside a gas engine...How do you tell what's been done? A person could easily pump out 500hp from a small block gas engine in SS and meet all the rules for that class. My personal feeling is that a "Programer/Juice/Chip" should be considered in the "Aftermarket Ignition" catagory. But, again, how do you tell if an engine has been "Juiced"? Some programers are plugged in to reprogram and then removed. Help us out here if you have any ideas.

In Pro Stock it starts to get serious. In Pro Stock the engine rules say "Any engine size and/or swap". In fact, if I were to put the metal front end back on the Dawg I could run in Pro Stock.

As for the weight, I have never considered the heavier rigs as having an advantage. In fact I have been trying to lighten up the Dawg for years but still weigh 1000+ pounds more than Jeeps in my class :( .
 

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Well, it came from the factory with it. If it was a "stock" truck it could run with it. I would bet your Jeep has more HP than what my stock Diesel came with even though mine has the turbo.

We have been baseing our rules off of what Soda currently has. They told me at the last race there that they were going to be changing them this year but I don't know what changes are in store. The diesels have opened up a can of worms for us because of how they come without any mods and what can be done without being able to see it. The same thing happened when carburators were replaced with factory fuel injection. No manufacturers produce trucks with carbs any more. Do we say that fuel injection is unfair? The way we look at it now is if someone has put on an AFTERMARKET fuel injection system. If a gas rig came with a Turbo then I would say it would be ok to let it run all the way from stock on up. I once owned a Mazda 323 that had four wheel drive and was turbo charged from the factory. I'm sure there are other "factory" rigs out there with turbos besides diesels. Didn't Toyota have one?
 

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yes toyota did have a factory 22re turbo 4x4

hopefully people will be honest with modifications, ignitions, bigger turbos, programmers etc....

I know you can chip the gassers just like the diesels, not as much gain, but its still a mod...
 

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I have been thinking about the diesel issue for some time (just ask Mark). I did some research this morning to compare what is available in a stock truck these days. Here is what I found for some engine specs:
  • Chevy
    • 6.0 V8 - 367hp/375tq
    • Duramax diesel - 360hp/650tq
  • Dodge
    • Hemi - 345hp/375tq
    • Cummins - 325hp/610tq
    • SRT V10 (just for fun) - 500hp/525tq
  • Ford
    • 6.8 V10 - 362hp/457tq
    • 6.0 PS - 325/570
Horsepower between the gas and diesels are lower for the diesels but the torque specs are a lot higher right out of the box. How that translates to a mud pit depends on the pit. My guess is that torque wins in a deep pit and horsepower wins in a shallow pit. But, as we all know, Traction is the key! Lots of hp and torgue can spin tires all day and get you nowhere.

Now, just cuz, I will use Chevy to compare performance possabilities. What would happen if we put a stock 6.0 up against a stock Duramax? Would the Duramax walk away from the higher horsepower 6.0 at Pleasant Valley? Should we disallow the Duramax because it has a turbo? What would happen to keeping things as fair as we can and allow a turbo on the gas 6.0 that already has more hp?

My point in all this stuff is that it's all as clear as the mud we race in. That's why we are very interested in what Soda Springs rules look like for next year.
 

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I have been thinking about the diesel issue for some time (just ask Mark). I did some research this morning to compare what is available in a stock truck these days. Here is what I found for some engine specs:
  • Chevy
    • 6.0 V8 - 367hp/375tq
    • Duramax diesel - 360hp/650tq
  • Dodge
    • Hemi - 345hp/375tq
    • Cummins - 325hp/610tq
    • SRT V10 (just for fun) - 500hp/525tq
  • Ford
    • 6.8 V10 - 362hp/457tq
    • 6.0 PS - 325/570
Horsepower between the gas and diesels are lower for the diesels but the torque specs are a lot higher right out of the box. How that translates to a mud pit depends on the pit. My guess is that torque wins in a deep pit and horsepower wins in a shallow pit. But, as we all know, Traction is the key! Lots of hp and torgue can spin tires all day and get you nowhere.

Now, just cuz, I will use Chevy to compare performance possabilities. What would happen if we put a stock 6.0 up against a stock Duramax? Would the Duramax walk away from the higher horsepower 6.0 at Pleasant Valley? Should we disallow the Duramax because it has a turbo? What would happen to keeping things as fair as we can and allow a turbo on the gas 6.0 that already has more hp?

My point in all this stuff is that it's all as clear as the mud we race in. That's why we are very interested in what Soda Springs rules look like for next year.
I can't say about mud, but I know at a drag strip a stock LBZ duramax will average mid-low 15s, depending on cab/box configuration.
 

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What would be ideal would be a diesel class, but judging from the past couple mud runs I went to, there would be maybe 2 or 3 trucks in that class.

I guess it wouldn't be worse than the stock diesel sled pulling class, often your guarenteed at least a 2nd or 3rd place spot.


I mentioned the sled pulling because I remember someone talking about it at some point. I do know sled pulling brings in ALOT of people... and $$. I would say 3-4 times more people than what I saw at the mud runs. Doing a mud run/sled pull... all day event would be bad ass. (and I like sled pulling better... washing that conrete/mud off it a royal PITA!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I would like to see some of those high horse big torque Diesels run against the Dawg. But I think a 7000lb Diesel against a 3500lb Dawg, with close to equal Horse Power, I think the Dawg will win every time. The Dawg gets its power right away, no Turbo lag(even if its minimal) plus the pit is only 150 to 200 ft long. Kind of hard to get all that weight up to speed in such a short time.

As a side note, what are the 60ft times on those bad ass Diesels we see at the drag races?? HOw do they compare to the other vehicles with similar 1/4 mile times?
 

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A diesel with a good boosted 4wd launch can cut 1.7s pretty easily on a truck running in the 12s. I think the best I have seen was 1.5 something. My personal best was 1.86. I run low 14s.
 

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I'm back. Been out of town for a while.

I just ran across this on the Pleasant Valley site:

http://www.pleasantvalleycyclepark.com/Events.htm

I know they want to have more than the two races they list, but I think they are waiting for more info on the other races.

Hey, still waiting for ideas on what to do about diesels.

There was a comment about the mud pits being too short for a diesel to build up HP with their turbos. I believe it has more to do with RPM than distance. I can punch mine from a dead stop and it does one thing, but if I spin up the turbo (power brake) before launch it will burn all six tires. What class should my tow rig be in?
 

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I'm back. Been out of town for a while.

I just ran across this on the Pleasant Valley site:

http://www.pleasantvalleycyclepark.com/Events.htm

I know they want to have more than the two races they list, but I think they are waiting for more info on the other races.

Hey, still waiting for ideas on what to do about diesels.

There was a comment about the mud pits being too short for a diesel to build up HP with their turbos. I believe it has more to do with RPM than distance. I can punch mine from a dead stop and it does one thing, but if I spin up the turbo (power brake) before launch it will burn all six tires. What class should my tow rig be in?
I seem to remember a certain cummins that raced an older ford last year and they had no problems with turbo lag. This Cummins was juiced, and had exhaust done. The problem was that they couldn't get it to hook up on the line. Too much torque, so the tires just spun. Even with swampers on it. As for the turbo lag, this thing was bouncing off the rev limiter before it made it 15 feet into the pit, so turbo lag is definetly NOT a big deal with these things. Remember, most guys are racing in 4lo. With those kind of reduced wheels speeds, these diesels can spool up way faster than they normally would be able to. Especially if you powerbrake it, right bad dawg?:popcorn: :thumb:
I think there really is no difference between the diesels that are chipped/juiced and say, a jeep with a 400hp small block, or even 300hp. The diesel has the disadvantage of weighing anywhere from 8800lbs on up to 10500lbs, so I'd say, the lighter gassers still have the edge.:thumb:
 

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but that is not the point, you can not run a trubo on a gas motor and run PS then it should be the same for a diesel.
 

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Whoah... diesel weighing 8800-10500... what are you thinking, the guys with a camper loaded on the back of the truck to run it in the mud? :rotfl:


IMO the only fair way to class a diesel is a diesel class. They are a different animal then gassers, and I don't think it would be fair to put them in the same class.

If only 1 or 2 show up, well guess who's getting 1st and 2nd? It has been that way with the sled pulls before. Stock diesel class was just 2.. or 3 people. (how do you think I got 1st place :thumb:)


Unless I get a wild hair I probably won't run the Jeep in the mud again. It's just WAY too much work to wash off for maybe 25-30 seconds of fun. I've never seen mud before that you could use to pour a garage floor!
 

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the point being is the diesels came that way stock, the order of classes is to work your way up as you modify your vehicle. I dont think there is anything wrong with the diesels competing, with or without turbos. When the diesels trucks start dominating and winning every event, then there might be some reclassifications do...
 
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