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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Couple of weeks ago a group of us went out. I had my tires aired WAY down. Basically I was in a hurry and did not fill them before I left the house. At the trail head I checked them and they were all about 1 to 1.5 PSI. I normally run the tires at 4-5psi on the trail. Since the tires hardly even bulge at this pressure I thought nothing of it.
Coming out of CarnageCanyon I hit a rock just right and popped the inner bead. Luckily for me Howard had a CO2 tank. We were able to get the bead reseated fairly easily. Howard’s tank is a 15lb tank. I thought to myself “I need a Co2 tank for the buggy.” The only problem is that the 15lb tanks are too big to store very easily on the buggy.
This got me thinking about CO2. I have played paintball since 1988 and still have quite a bit of equipment including several tanks of various sizes. I wondered if I could fill a 42” tire with one of my paintball gun tanks.

Basically the answer is yes.

Here is an experiment I ran last night.
I used an 1/8” npt to 1/4” npt reducer to adapt a quick disconnect to my remote line from my paintball gun.


I started with a 3.5oz tank and an empty 42” tire.





Second I tried the 12oz tank.


And then the 16oz tank. I am saving the 20oz tank to see if I can reseat a bead.

The results:

The 3.5oz tank only filled the tire up to 1psi
The 12oz tank filled the tire to 5psi


The 16oz tank filled the tire to 10psi (In 30 seconds!!)


These results are from fully filled tanks at 40degree temperatures. There is no regulator on the tanks. I just opened them full open knowing that the volume of my largest tank would not exceed the volume of a 42” TSL. The calculated volume in a completely filled out 42” TSL is 14545.28 cu/in (8.42 cu/ft) the volume of a 16oz CO2 tank is 39.65 cu/in (.023 cu/ft) That is an expansion increase of 366%! Now I did not calculate the Ideal Gas law (PV = nRT) or anything so this is not entirely scientific.

The ideal co2 tank temperature is about 70 degrees; this is because at 70 degrees liquid CO2 produces about 850psi. As the tank temperature gets lower the pressure drops. CO2 is greatly affected by humidity and temperature. In saying this if I allowed the CO2 to bleed slowly into the tire instead of “dumping” it in I probably would have achieved more psi. The other thing to note is that “dumping” the CO2 the cylinder completely freezes over. I know you knew that already!


The other caution that I have is this is a one shot deal. One 16oz tank will fill two tires to the 5psi that I normally run. Any foul-ups in the transfer process and your screwed. The nice thing about the size is that I can store these almost anywhere on the buggy without much trouble. It is smaller than my fire extinguisher.



Cost –
16oz CO2 tank – 16.00 dollars
CO2 fill from paintball store – 3.00 dollars
Remote line – 20.00 dollars
Reducer – 1.50 dollars

Total cost ~50 dollars

The last thing to note is that I really should use a ball valve instead of a screw down valve and you should have the quick disconnect coupler coupled before pressuring the line. 850psi makes it a little difficult!

 

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Holy crap don't touch that bottle! Now that is some interesting tech.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hmmm, do they make and sell an affordable, disposable cylinder in 16 or 24 oz. size?
They don't make them disposable because they are easily refilled.

At 16 dollars for a 16oz Bottle and 3 dollars for a fill that seems fairly inexpensive to me. In my cost breakdown I showed 20 dollars for the remote line but you dont need that. So for ~25 dollars you could have a quick and compact way to fill a tire. I think this would be good to have in a passenger vehicle. Store one in your trunk. Store one behind the seat of your truck.
 

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(PV=nRT) WHAT???
Good thing I am just a fertilizer salesman!!!
So what happens if you waste some CO2 when trying to seat the bead? Assuming you are trying to reset a bead.
Tony, how much time do have in the evenings?:what:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
(PV=nRT) WHAT???
Good thing I am just a fertilizer salesman!!!
So what happens if you waste some CO2 when trying to seat the bead? Assuming you are trying to reset a bead.
Tony, how much time do have in the evenings?:what:
Like I said above it is a one shot deal.:darn: Obviously if you waste it your done. Just like your 15lb CO2 tank once it is empty it is just an ornament until you get it filled and you just can't hook it up to your air compressor. You have to take it to Norco or Airgas or somewhere that fills CO2.

I have not tried to reseat a bead yet but so far I believe you will need at least a 20oz tank and do it right the first time. Better wear gloves too because you will have to "dump" the CO2.

Remember this is all based on a 42" tire which is a BIG tire with lots of volume. It takes my oiless crapsman compressor about 5 minutes at a regulated 120psi to fill it to 10psi. Smaller tires would be much easier to work with. I bet a 12gram CO2 powerlet like a pellet gun would use could fill a bike tire instantly.

As far as free time. It really is sad because I fill what little extra time I have doing crap like this!
 

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Like I said above it is a one shot deal.:darn: Obviously if you waste it your done. Just like your 15lb CO2 tank once it is empty it is just an ornament until you get it filled and you just can't hook it up to your air compressor. You have to take it to Norco or Airgas or somewhere that fills CO2.

I have not tried to reseat a bead yet but so far I believe you will need at least a 20oz tank and do it right the first time. Better wear gloves too because you will have to "dump" the CO2.

Remember this is all based on a 42" tire which is a BIG tire with lots of volume. It takes my oiless crapsman compressor about 5 minutes at a regulated 120psi to fill it to 10psi. Smaller tires would be much easier to work with. I bet a 12gram CO2 powerlet like a pellet gun would use could fill a bike tire instantly.

As far as free time. It really is sad because I fill what little extra time I have doing crap like this!
You are right about the 15# CO2 bottle. When it is empty, it is empty. And you have to wait till it is empty to fill it. Norco purges them before they refill. No matter how much you have going in, they will charge you for a full refill.
Need some extra guy time in the shop? I to spend some time in the shop in the evening. Even have TV. CRAP!! Starting to sound gay!!:lame:
 

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Maybe you can, JeepHacker. Some of us old guys are lucky to just go the once. And c'mon...10 minutes? Quit bragging.

-Mikey-
(insert mandatory masturbation joke here)
 

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This sort of defeats the "cheap" part, but I work at Lowes and just saw a new regulator for CO2, it is designed to be used for like a nail gun application, but it may work for this as well. Its $99 though for the regulator. Saw that today and reminded me of this.
 

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I would just carry a can of starting fluid and a lighter to reseat. Far less expensive and a 2-4 second spray will seat the bead and give you about from 2-5lbs of pressure. (on a 36 and 38 tsl)

I cannot tell you how often I have had to use starting fluid while on the trail.

Good tech Tony, thanks!
 

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Let me see if I get this tech straight...

For 50 bucks I could attach my cylinder to a fertilizer salesman with a quick coupler, but I might blow his bead if it's 40 degrees. If I wait 10 minutes and try again I could fill his crapsman with 5lbs of freezing cold air as long as it's 70 degrees. But if there is a leak in the coupler, it's a one shot deal and after that he's screwed!!

You're right Howard, that is gay!!:smokin:
 

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Let me see if I get this tech straight...

For 50 bucks I could attach my cylinder to a fertilizer salesman with a quick coupler, but I might blow his bead if it's 40 degrees. If I wait 10 minutes and try again I could fill his crapsman with 5lbs of freezing cold air as long as it's 70 degrees. But if there is a leak in the coupler, it's a one shot deal and after that he's screwed!!

You're right Howard, that is gay!!:smokin:
This thread went to Hell in hurry!!!:darn:
 

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I know, I couldn't resist it. Sorry Tony.

Back on subject.

This is a cool experiment. It looks like you could carry 4-5 of these canisters very easily and could even double up if needed. Really cool idea and I like the comparison between the different oz's. I would like to get a few of these as a back up to my compressor.

I have seen quite a few people use starting fluid over the last 20 years, but it has always scared the hell out of me. I just can't get myself to do it. And I am always worried that I am going to start a fire or that someone will get hurt. Probably me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
It 10:30 on a saturday- Shouldn't you yahoos being doing something constructive???:rolleyes: :flipoff:
 

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This is constructive. 2 hours of lecture followed by 12 hours of shop time applying what we just learned.

At this point, it does appear to be beer30 though, so off I go.

:beer: :beer:
 

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Hey are you guys going tomorrow still ? Sorry for the hi-jack ! It is suppose to be snowing. I'm going, but I doubt I do 2HD. I want a little better conditions for my first time.:shocked:
 
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